Comments on: The Politics of Half-Full or Half-Empty http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/2010/04/21/the-politics-of-half-full-or-half-empty/ Living & parenting without the rule book Mon, 06 Feb 2012 20:47:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Joel Monka http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/2010/04/21/the-politics-of-half-full-or-half-empty/comment-page-1/#comment-7224 Joel Monka Fri, 23 Apr 2010 02:17:55 +0000 http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/?p=2035#comment-7224 Actually, the thing about diet makes <i>your</i> point... as long as people believe the world is overpopulated, they need do nothing about feeding the hungry. Join ZPG and forget about it, because you can't fix it- nothing can be done in the short term about overpopulation. But if people knew that hunger could actually be solved and still did nothing, they'd feel shame at least. So framing the question correctly matters... frame it as a population deal, and people will say "Whatta ya gonna do- put contraceptives in their water?" Frame it as a political and distribution problem, and people might actually work on doing something. I'm for vouchers as well, and for many of the same reasons. Let's be pro-choice <i>after</i> they're born, as well as before. As far as the engineers go, yes it's a joke, but a joke with a point- framing the question correctly is of critical importance in engineering, too. Actually, the thing about diet makes your point… as long as people believe the world is overpopulated, they need do nothing about feeding the hungry. Join ZPG and forget about it, because you can’t fix it- nothing can be done in the short term about overpopulation. But if people knew that hunger could actually be solved and still did nothing, they’d feel shame at least. So framing the question correctly matters… frame it as a population deal, and people will say “Whatta ya gonna do- put contraceptives in their water?” Frame it as a political and distribution problem, and people might actually work on doing something.

I’m for vouchers as well, and for many of the same reasons. Let’s be pro-choice after they’re born, as well as before.

As far as the engineers go, yes it’s a joke, but a joke with a point- framing the question correctly is of critical importance in engineering, too.

]]> By: Cooper Zale http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/2010/04/21/the-politics-of-half-full-or-half-empty/comment-page-1/#comment-7215 Cooper Zale Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:25:13 +0000 http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/?p=2035#comment-7215 Joel... Well maybe my whole thing about meat-based diets diverted from the point I was trying to make about societal framing of scarcity or abundance, and where we tend to go from there. What your saying is that the facts at this moment in time is that we can feed everyone, if we can resolve the ethical and logistical problems we are wrestling with. Though I come from a secular liberal worldview that is very suspicious of vouchers as a backhanded way to support parochial education, I am for giving poor parents vouchers. I am all about giving people options, "many paths", particular when it comes to education, because all people don't learn the same way and therefor one type of "school" can never be the appropriate learning environment for every student. It is hubris to think that the conventional instructional school can and should work for every student. It puts too much pressure on the teachers to "wrangle" and try to motivate the kids that don't belong there, and destroys the learning environment by their presence. And saying the glass has "excess capacity", though I assume is intended to be a joke, is an interesting third framing that I have to think about. Is that case of engineers only having a hammer so they see every problem as a nail? Joel… Well maybe my whole thing about meat-based diets diverted from the point I was trying to make about societal framing of scarcity or abundance, and where we tend to go from there. What your saying is that the facts at this moment in time is that we can feed everyone, if we can resolve the ethical and logistical problems we are wrestling with.

Though I come from a secular liberal worldview that is very suspicious of vouchers as a backhanded way to support parochial education, I am for giving poor parents vouchers. I am all about giving people options, “many paths”, particular when it comes to education, because all people don’t learn the same way and therefor one type of “school” can never be the appropriate learning environment for every student. It is hubris to think that the conventional instructional school can and should work for every student. It puts too much pressure on the teachers to “wrangle” and try to motivate the kids that don’t belong there, and destroys the learning environment by their presence.

And saying the glass has “excess capacity”, though I assume is intended to be a joke, is an interesting third framing that I have to think about. Is that case of engineers only having a hammer so they see every problem as a nail?

]]> By: Joel Monka http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/2010/04/21/the-politics-of-half-full-or-half-empty/comment-page-1/#comment-7200 Joel Monka Wed, 21 Apr 2010 23:11:28 +0000 http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/?p=2035#comment-7200 Yes, we tend to eat way too much meat. At this moment, our meat consumption has no effect on world hunger, as grain shortage is not the problem- but if everyone else ate like us, it would become a problem quickly. The first and biggest effect it would have on the ecosphere would be the waste treatment plants needed to handle the huge output of that many animals living in small spaces- that's the biggest problem with pig farms right now; that many large animals were never meant to live that close together. How do you feel about education vouchers to let poor parents get their children out of flawsed school systems? By the way, in engineering class we used to say that the glass is neither half full nor half empty; it is over engineered, having excess capacity. :) Yes, we tend to eat way too much meat. At this moment, our meat consumption has no effect on world hunger, as grain shortage is not the problem- but if everyone else ate like us, it would become a problem quickly. The first and biggest effect it would have on the ecosphere would be the waste treatment plants needed to handle the huge output of that many animals living in small spaces- that’s the biggest problem with pig farms right now; that many large animals were never meant to live that close together.

How do you feel about education vouchers to let poor parents get their children out of flawsed school systems?

By the way, in engineering class we used to say that the glass is neither half full nor half empty; it is over engineered, having excess capacity. :)

]]> By: Cooper Zale http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/2010/04/21/the-politics-of-half-full-or-half-empty/comment-page-1/#comment-7199 Cooper Zale Wed, 21 Apr 2010 22:43:54 +0000 http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/?p=2035#comment-7199 Joel... thanks for your comment and t.he links to your posts. I agree with you that politics is a big issue in food distribution and people all over the world (including America) not having enough to eat But at its base, we still have enough food to feed the world, even with current population trends. But I'm curious if you agree with me when I say that if another one to two billion of Earth's people adopted the American meat-based over-consumption diet, the redirection of grain to meat production and the toxicity of all those factory-farmed animals will take its toll on food supply and quality of our ecosphere. Joel… thanks for your comment and t.he links to your posts. I agree with you that politics is a big issue in food distribution and people all over the world (including America) not having enough to eat But at its base, we still have enough food to feed the world, even with current population trends. But I’m curious if you agree with me when I say that if another one to two billion of Earth’s people adopted the American meat-based over-consumption diet, the redirection of grain to meat production and the toxicity of all those factory-farmed animals will take its toll on food supply and quality of our ecosphere.

]]> By: Joel Monka http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/2010/04/21/the-politics-of-half-full-or-half-empty/comment-page-1/#comment-7189 Joel Monka Wed, 21 Apr 2010 17:12:48 +0000 http://www.leftyparent.com/blog/?p=2035#comment-7189 According to the United Nations, there exists <i>right now</i> enough food to make every person on Earth morbidly obese- famine and starvation are political problems, not supply problems. I discuss it, with links to raw data, <a href="http://cuumbaya.blogspot.com/2006/09/myth-of-overpopulation.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> <a href="http://cuumbaya.blogspot.com/2009/05/myth-of-overpopulation-part-2.html#comments" rel="nofollow">and here</a> According to the United Nations, there exists right now enough food to make every person on Earth morbidly obese- famine and starvation are political problems, not supply problems. I discuss it, with links to raw data, here and here

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